Anatol Lieven
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From The Times
August 26, 2008
Don't pick a fight you can't finish, Mr Miliband
When he visits Kiev, the Foreign Secretary should remember the threats posed by Nato's drive eastwards
Before making his speech on policy towards Russia in Kiev, Ukraine, later this week David Miliband would do well to ponder some wise advice from a great predecessor. Lord Salisbury, Foreign Secretary and Prime Minister in the days of the British Empire, dispensed immense global power; but that did not mean that he liked playing about with that power.
Faced with proposals for British policy that he understood to be deeply damaging to the interests of other great powers, Salisbury would look his colleagues in the eye and ask simply: “Are you really prepared to fight? If not, do not embark on this policy.”
If the events of the past fortnight in Georgia have demonstrated one thing clearly, it is that Russia will fight if it feels its vital interests under attack in the former Soviet Union - and that the West will not, and indeed cannot, given its conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Other Western threats are equally empty. Russia itself pulled out of co-operation with Nato. If a real threat is made of expulsion from the G8, Russia will leave that organisation too - especially since a club that does not include China and India is increasingly meaningless anyway. The threat of being barred from joining the World Trade Organisation is a bit stronger - but Russia has done so well economically without membership that this goal too has lost much of its allure.
Moscow has reminded Nato of the importance of Russian goodwill to secure the supply lines of the US-Nato operation in Afghanistan through Central Asia. Alternatively, Nato can become wholly dependent on routes through Pakistan. From where I am sitting, that does not look like a very good move - and where I am sitting at this moment is a hotel room in Peshawar, Pakistan.
By siding fully with Iran, Russia has the capability to wreck any possibility of compromise between Tehran and the West, and to push the US towards an attack that would be disastrous for Western interests - and enormously helpful to Russia's.
However, if only he will take it, Mr Miliband's speech could be a magnificent opportunity to set British policy towards Russia on a footing of sober reality - strengthening Western unity and resolve on issues such as reducing our energy dependence on Russia; but eschewing empty promises and shelving hopeless goals such as restoring Georgian sovereignty over South Ossetia and Abkhazia and forcing Russia to change its Constitution to extradite Andrei Lugovoi, accused of killing the former KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko.
Russia, for its part, will have to abandon or shelve its own hopeless goals such as restoring Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo and forcing Britain to change its laws to extradite Boris Berezovsky and the Chechen leader Ahmed Zakayev.
Above all, Mr Miliband needs to think hard before committing Britain to support Nato membership for Georgia and Ukraine. He should look carefully at the widespread Western belief that Russia “set a trap for Georgia” in South Ossetia. There was no Russian trap. In recent years Moscow has made it absolutely, publicly and repeatedly clear that if Georgia attacked South Ossetia, Russia would fight.
The obvious trap was set by President Saakashvili for the West, and was based on the belief that if he started a war to recover Georgia's lost territories, the West would come to his aid. This didn't work as well as Mr Saakashvili wished, because we have not gone to war for Georgia. On the other hand, every Western government statement offering future Nato membership is an implicit promise that we will do so in future if necessary. How can we make such a promise to a man who tried to involve us in a war without even asking us first?
On Ukraine, Mr Miliband should study carefully a range of reliable opinion polls showing that by a margin of about three to one, ordinary Ukrainian voters are opposed to Nato membership. This is not only because they want good relations with Russia, but because they fear being dragged into disastrous American wars in the Muslim world.
Even when it comes to the wider question of alignment with the West rather than Russia, the Ukrainian majority in favour of the Western line is slim - about 53 to 47 per cent to judge by the last Ukrainian presidential election. We should have learnt by now from the ghastly examples of Bosnia and elsewhere that a narrow numerical majority is simply not enough when existential national issues are at stake.
In other words, it is Nato's eastward drive, not Russian ambition, that is the greatest threat to Ukrainian stability and unity. A realistic British policy towards Ukraine should mean a genuine commitment to help it to develop economically, socially and politically in ways that will gradually draw it closer to the West and may one day make European Union membership possible. Under no circumstances should it mean plunging Ukraine into a disastrous crisis for the sake of a Nato alliance that cannot and will not defend it anyway.
Viewing this conflict from Pakistan gives some interesting perspectives. The first is the absolute insanity of the West's stoking a crisis with Russia while facing such intractable problems in the Muslim world.
It is also striking that the Pakistani media have been very balanced in their coverage of the crisis, despite their traditional hostility to Moscow.
Is this because they have suddenly fallen in love with Russia? Not a bit. It is because when it comes to international lawlessness, bullying and aggression, they no longer see a great difference between Russia and America. The moralising of Western leaders, therefore, no longer cuts much ice in Peshawar - or anywhere else much outside the West itself.
Anatol Lieven is a professor at King's College London and a former Times correspondent in the Soviet Union
Dulat, it was not the fault of the Russian people that the nomenclatura/KGB/FSB/Siloviki gang seized power in a Russia that was liberated from that 'Prison of nations', the USSR.No one wants a free&prosperous Russia weakened; only an authoritarian regime is threatened by peaceful democratic neighbours
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada
Yep... I am glad not all western people think it all Russia's fault. It is not Russia's fault at all. There are people in the West, who deliberately try to promote instability and war at Russia's borders to make it weaker, because no one in the West would ever love to see Russia strong again.
Dulat, Fort Collins, US
Vasily Slesarenko,
Don't go looking for Russia's birthplace in Kyiv and don't confuse Russia with Kyivan Rus. You can only find Russia's birthplace in Moscow. Founded by Kyiv Prince Yuri Dolgoruky, Moscow evolved into the Great Duchy of Moscow, adopting the name Russia in a self-glorification bid.
Taras, Kyiv, Ukraine
Rakesh, the Russian people certainly are a good people and with the collapse of the USSR, run by very nasty people, all the captive nations including Russia were free to take whatever path that they chose.
Poor Russia was seized by the ex KGB&oligarchs&siloviki who are now trying to remake the USSR
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada
Russians are good people. They let their empire go, while NATO kept pushing east. So who's expansionist here? During the Cold War, Soviet Russia helped democratic India become self-sufficient while democratic US armed and abetted dictatorship Pakistan. Indians are forever grateful to Russia.
Rakesh Krishnan, Auckland, New Zealand
Being Indian from the sub-continent, I find it very hard to swallow that Russians are justifying thier occupation as a defence of their own people when clearly they are an occupying force. They must withdraw or feel our wrath!
Mohan, Mumbai, India
The UK should shut up, get behind its own borders and sort out the domestic issues. Energy security, rebuilding employment, reducing reliance of the financial sleight-of-hand sector. NATO is just America and their record is as shameful as any other. The UK should be out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Fred, Harrogate,
The comments section on all Georgia conflict articles seem to consistently reek of western ignorance (and bad English).
It's nice to see that at least a small minority of Britain are waking up from this dream that the West is the bastion of all things "good".
Kriss A, London, UK
@Anthony L, Chelmsford
What I am doing in the West - among other , promoting understanding between ascending Russia and the declining West. Why are you in Chelmsford and not, say, Kabul?
BTW, your insinuation of acceptable West' populace reeks, or is it the "White man' burden" you espouse?
Mikhail Drabkin, San Francisco, USA
@oleks, Malorossia
RE: 1984 - why strange? It indeed is anti-Soviet. Treat history within the historic context. Why strange to blame the West, regardless from where? Your province wants to be a part of the West - so fight it out with Russians in the East provinces. Don't appeal to the West for it.
Mikhail Drabkin, San Francisco, USA
Excellent article - The West should stop trying to make countries in its own image as those times have gone. In fact sometimes I think that the West hardly knows what it looks like to itself much less try to make others look like it. So there you have variants of mutated democracies like in Africa.
Jasper, Birmingham,
USA is the only country, that used nuclear weapon against civilians(Japan). They've killed millions in Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan...you name it. They keep stirring conflicts all over the world. Now they put their missiles close to Russian borders(Poland). Who's bad guy then? Russia? Wrong answer.
Karl, Oslo, Norway
Arkady Gilev,Ekaterinburg
Strange as it seems but it was SU not US or UK who had forbidden the publication of Orwell's '1984', 'Animal Farm' as unhealthily anti-Soviet texts.It sounds much stranger to hear those Russians blaming the West while grooving on the Canaries.Why not go to Mahadan resort?
oleks, Chortkiv, Ukraine
There's no need to delve into historical controversies.Just compare the living standards of Finland & e.g., Karelia of 'democratized' Russia. Remember one of the worst 1866-68 famine in the Grand Duchy of Finland.One shouldn't be overduped to believe in goody-goody Russia's 'turn-off-the-gas' policy
oleks, Chortkiv, Ukraine
Russia is just following the same steps as the west... remember iraq.. illegal war... The world has always been about playground politics... the one who has the power can do anything... No one here mentions Chechnya the entire country was wasted and no one said a thing....
Hayes Ali, Nottingham, UK
The simple citizen best knows everything than every politician, why doesn't he come a politician either ??
Pierre, Rennes, France
A sane voice. Prof Lieven's prescription for stability and peaceful cooperation should begin with a proposal to revive the Helsinki process of 1975, taking into account that borders in Europe need to be made sacrosanct once again. This time, through negotiation, like German reunification.
Mike, London, UK
Don't pick an illusion of the Russian "peacemaking actions" in Georgia or elsewhere,Mr. Lieven,if you can't imagine what is behind a well-planned by the FSB & sponsored schemes of the post-Soviet humiliated Russia in its former colonies or so-called republics. Don't sit on the fence & remember 1933!
oleks, Chortkiv, Ukraine
Let Georgia and Ukraine join NATO - they are no more indefensible than the Baltic States. Article 5 in the NATO Treaty simply says that after an attack an ally will assist and take "such action as it deems necessary". In the end this means nothing, as has been proven in Afghanistan.
Dean, Washington DC, USA
Well and wisely said.
Mary, Moscow,
At very least the Sochi winter olympics must be moved as it's just a few miles from where an invasion is taking place.
It's difficult to determine if this is Russian expansionism or a rescue of people facing genocide.
Alan Craigie, Aberdeen, Scotland
"Russia's current foreign policy is defined by being everything anti-Western for cheap domestic political points.
Mick Ross, Sydney, Australia"
I'm glad that situation changed a bit and our leaders stopped selling own country for cheap foreign praises. Your sadness is understandable. :)
Mary, Moscow,
Yeah! We are paranoid vodka-drinkers with white bears and balalaikas! And we dislike US silly cowboys, placing their radars and military bases near our borders. USA now behave like Okeania from "1984" - and do it since 1999. If you have paranoia it doesn't mean that you're not hunted.
Arkady Gilev, Ekaterinburg, Russian Federation
There has never been a successful invasion of Russia.
Dan, Manchester, UK
So. when it suited Western countries' interests to proclaime Kosovo independence , they did it , On the absolotely same legal basic, now , Russia is condemned to do the same with Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Will some one please tell America to do what it preaches or to shut up .
tony, auckland, new zealand
The UK and Europe should be careful what they wish for ie a week or defeated USA. Does your jealousy and envy really extend to being dominated by Russia?? You have all lost empires and then started the worst wars the world has seen. Only NATO has saved you from yourselves.
kr, cap ferrat, france
ronald john bentham. money is pretty important and what you should understand is that russia is a poor country with alot of gas and oil. even if russias ecconomy is just about the same size as britains, that makes it about 1/20th the size of nato if its lucky. we invest in nuclear, theyre bankrupt
will, grimsby, uk
Admit Ukraine to NATO now! .. and Georgia while there is any of it left NATO revealing true colours in tattered underspants.. remember the Belgians ? Only true option is to expell all Russians from UK and 2012 forthwith. Sorry, Olly Garks, Football Club Owners and Players .. we want our ball back.
Dvaid Jeremy, Instow, UK
Since when is encouraging a country to be democratic and join in mutual self defense a threat to another country.
Only when it's Russia, the most paranoid of countries and clearly without a democratically elected government or any desire or clue what it's worth to it or is beleaguered citizens.
Skip Amburn, Clear Brook, USA
The Soviet government announced that it was acting to protect the Ukrainians and Belarusians....
Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
Hello-o-o - Russia today is not a ideological state ruled by Stalin (who was gerogian, by the way). It is very pragmatical state. Forget about what youve been told by media
Alex, Palo Alto, USA
Mr. Lieven, it is really sad to see that you are using the same lame thetorics as the Russian agressors. What you call the Nato's drive eastwards is in real the spread of democracy worldwide including eastwords, which is naturally very disturbig for the Kremlin tyrannical regime.
Stan, London, UK
From the video coverage in the news, the Russian forces seem undisciplined and outdated, a bunch of thugs beating up the amateurish Georgian forces. Russia's conventional forces are no longer even in the top 5 in the world. Russia's leadership is full of old dreams and hot air.
Randy, Graham, USA
Extremely well-written article. Very balanced view indeed.
VJ, Brighton,
The trouble is Europe thinks Russia will roll over like Germany, France, UK, and the rest for the benefit of the 'European Ideal' we call the 'EU'.
It isn't going to happen, more likely is a war that will cause massive loss of life with the US fighting yet another war on someone else's soil.
Howard , Basildon, England
The United States and its European partners will do nothing to stop a resurgent Russia. Europe is a dead-stick with 80% petroleum and natural gas imports from the Russian Federation. Russia knows full well America is stretched thin and will continue to exploit every strategic advantage.
Rodney Dezarn, Fayetteville, United States of America
So Nato is doing Russia a favour....Ukraine is a cauldron ready to explode.
Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
Quite frankly, Russia whould be happy to have just friendly or client states in backyard, just like US does. War and absorbing just is not practical. Keep all 'imperialisitc' talks to politicians
Alex, Palo Alto, USA
This is simply a matter of Bush and the neocons pushing an ever agressive policy, destructive to the US and the rest of the world, despite the lie/disaster of Iraq, the soon to be disaster in Afghanistan, and others sure to come if McCain gets elected in November.
Mike, Warwick, USA
Good article and unbiased forecast for complications may happen!
Mr. Milbrand visit Russia first and try to become friend with Russia!
Dimitri, St. Petersburg, Russia
It's really brilliant article, not another stupid "russians are coming"
But I can't understand why EU wants to assimilate Ukraine? Don't you have problems with totally pro-US Poland and Baltic already? Imho, for EU 'the more the worse'
Arkady Gilev, Ekaterinburg, Russian Federation
A note to those referring to the historical parallels. Dear historians, please bear in mind: USSR is not Russia, and there was no "Russia" under USSR! This grievous mistake is crucial in Western view of Russia, and some comments here illustrate it perfectly... Many compliments to Mr. Lieven!
Georg, Bergen, Norway
It is very good article, because Ukraine may be and will be, minimum, second Iraq for NATO, because 2/3 people of Ukraine says: go home in USA, m-r Jushenko, You are not the president of Ukraine.
Evgeny, Lugansk, Ukraine
it is Nato's eastward drive, not Russian ambition, that is the greatest threat to Ukrainian stability and unity
Never truer words have been spoken
You back a man into a corner, and if you keep pushing him harder what choice do you leave him but to fight back?
Now what if the man is a bear?
Alex, Melbourne, Australia
Excellent article, at last some sense on a complex issue. It is easy to rattle a sabre, but not if your opponent knows you are not going to draw it.
No one in the west is going ot go to war over Georgia with a nuclear power, just as no one seriously suggests sending in the Marines to Tibet.
Simon O'Brien, London, UK
When the Warsaw pact broke up there were claims from NATO that there would be no eastwards expansion. Within a very short time NATO were courting all of them. Georgia is the West continuing that policy. And history shows when Russia feels threatened it strikes out - and NATO is now so weak.
Shaun, Macclesfield, UK
Russia's been immensely aggressive throughout all the history and still thinks arms will help to achieve its goals.But have you seen Russian towns,cities(I don't mention St.Petersburg or Moscow),drunkards on every street, overbearing poverty?Do you think it's how European country should look? Shame!
Nataie, London,
Soviet Union is dissolved peacefully, not one shot. Russia withdraws its forces and dismantles nukes. USA withdraws from ABM treaty, expands NATO to Russia borders, puts anti-missile in Poland. Finances Georgian military to attack South Ossetia. NOw Russia is the bad guy? wake up people.
Dan, Philadelphia, USA
Congratulations for your article! EU-construction more and more looks like USSR. Ukraine, Georgia and others just try to change one dependency on the other. Before it was Moscow, now - Brussels guided by Washington!
Helen, Brussels, Belgium
We're not going to fight. We're going to bleed them economically as we did when we dismantled the Soviet Union. If they want to come to the club, they need to play by our rules. Simple as that.
If trends continue, oil won't be much of a lever in a decade or so.
They can keep their Vodka.
Steven, Lake Forest, USA
Unlike Yushchenko, a $41 million benefactor of Berezovksy 's largess, Saakashvili is one leader Berezovsky cannot be accused of edging into war with Russia. Berezovsky is in the fight of his financial life to wrestle control of 50% of Patarkatsishvili's $12 billion estate from Saakashvili's grasp.
Brain K. Doan, Washington , USA
"As a Chinese I dislike Russia which seized more than 1.6 millions square meters of territory from China during the past two centuries. "
Hej Chinese--Why dont u remember that Russians saved you from a total extermination in 1945? and gave your a railroad and a port as a goodwill gesture?
alex, new york,
Russia was offered a partnership in the missile defence system...but turned it down - Why? >>>
In fact it was Russia, who offered partnership by suggeting using its radar in Gabala, Azerbaijan instead of building bases in Poland. Why US rejected this offer? Is Poland closer to Iran than Gabala?
Zloy Tugarin, Moscow, Russia
Would Professor Lieven care to repeat his remarks about the impossibility of Georgia regaining Abkhazia to the IDPs driven east in 1992/3, 1998 and in recent weeks - 43% of the population of that area, about 300,000 people, previously resident in what was a Georgian area long before the Soviet era?
George, Montrose, UK
Have you not been listening to the rhetoric coming out of Moscow in recent years? Putin means to cause trouble and will unless stopped in his tracks. Why should the West pander to the paranoia of Russia and its 'near abroad.'. Is their country so small they need to enlarge it?
johnson, Reading, UK
Mikhail, I had family members both deported and executed in 1940&have the list.
Original Soviet/German Pact with secret protocols signed at Rapallo in 1922, which allowed the German war machine to be built up secretly in the USSR contrary to the Treaty of Versailles. NO WWII otherwise!
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada
@Riga
Of course Russian values are different from the West’ – there are no universal values. You are mistaken: it is an old WESTERN custom to benefit completely in all-this is what the West calls “rational behavior”. BTW, no one has put Russia on her knees and survived her standing up, vai nee?
Mikhail Drabkin, San Francisco, USA
@Tom-Amsterdam
Your sequence of events is wrong, as you no doubt know it!
If Poland would have let USSR forces pass the world would be different. Secrets pacts started
a)after the West betrayed Czechoslovakia, and
b)after the West pushed Germany to a war with the USSR
Mikhail Drabkin, San Francisco, USA
My respect to the author for his realistic and balanced point of view
Julia, Tashkent , Uzbekistan
you can't deny that it's all about petrol and natural resources on both sides! Both the West and Russia are defending their place in the world. When it's more comfortable for the US to support Georgia they do whereas when they don't have any strategic interests involved they don't bother!
Nathalie, Paris, France
So Miliband wants to appease Russia, just like Chamberlain did Hitler!
Alan Breck, St. Catharines, Canada
Anthony L, Mikhail is doing in SanFran the same as many Anglo-Saxons are doing in Russia - making money. The fact they are making money and even live in Russia somehow does not stop them to pour scorn over her. So, I recon. Mikhail is entitled to his opinion whereever he live. It's called democracy.
Anton, St Petersburg, RF
The older the men, the greater the wisdom in its words (exept for Bushes).
D Bor, Yekaterinburg, RF
Totally AGREE WITH THIS ARTICLE!!!
If only someone could educate the masses!
Inna, UK
Inna, UK, UK
This article's outstanding realism is informed by the history of Britain's decline from world hegemon to vassal rump empire.
Now the US imperial regime will have to learn its own humility the hard way. In its outraged arrogance it will first unleash another Cold War and more adventures besides.
Richard Cheeseman, Wellington, New Zealand
The sensible thing would be for Moscow to accept the reality that Russia's former colonies want to be independent. >
The sensible thing for the former coloinies would be to understand that if thier independence is to threat Russia, it will end very soon. Play like Finland and you will be safe.
Zloy Tugarin, Moscow, Russia
What a pleasure to read an unbiased article after having read such drivel put out by most western writers. Geographic analysis of the whole region plus the middle east will clearly demonstrate US intentions. No WMDs found in Iraq, Saddam gone, biggest US embassy anywhere. So what's going on then???
Ronald, Nicosia, Cyprus
2 Greg:
your luck, that Alaska is not Russia nowadays! )
Anthony, Moscow, Russia
It's pity that Europe still plays the games in accordance with American rules. The scenario of this "conflict" was written by US to damage relationships between Russia and EU. Georgia attacted South Osetia first and just before the Olympic Games. Is it not enough to sea who has started Cold War?
Oleg, Luebeck, Germany
What really gives hope are comments. Even with the disagreement we all still can discuss everything we want without shooting each other.
Why the hell can't politics do the same? Seems personal fortune (financial and political) for every and each man with power is higher than lives of citizens.
Evgeny , Moscow, Russia
So the war is over???
No way, a new stage began-mass media war. I can only imagine, how our country is shown in us news, maybe a HUGE bear who prevents making democracy in the world?!
But why Saakashvilli went with M16 to South Osetia?Why not to ask its people about annexation?Is it democracy?
Eugene, Moscow, Russia
The west made a serious mistake 17 years ago, by persuading Yeltsin to apply "shock therapy" to the Russian economy. That’s the principle reason why we now find that we have to deal with somebody like Putin. Before we compound that with another serious mistake, stop and think - how will this end?
Denis Cooper, Maidenhead, England
@ Anthony L
You've got sense of humor! That's cool!
But don't be so pro-Russian (or pro-US, who cares?) Try to be a liittle bit balanced as author of this exellent article.
Michael Gorbachev has Nobel price for Peace. May be you saw him on CNN? Is there CNN among your 2000 SAT channels?
Zhenia, Samara, Russia
To Riley, Kiev, Ukraine
WOW! How dare you!
As for me,so, this summer I spent my holidays in raffting with friends from Ukrain.
You from west Ukrain are in politics too much. Don't mess with politics...
Zhenia, Samara, Russia
Someone with some common sense, how refreshing! I sent a similar email to D Cameron but he took no notice.
Mason, London, UK
i had been living in former USSR occupation for 30 years and all i can say - RUssia never plays a fair game. If you keep quiet - they`ll use the situation in their benefit as much as they can- they do not share Western values!. The only right thing to do is to put Russia on their knees
tatiana, Riga, Latvia
Very good balanced article
Andrey, Omsk, Russia
Very good article, Russia monstr ? well .. please have a look USA - Bombing Belgrad, Bagdad, Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Somali, Gaiti, Ruanda, Pakistan.. what is it ?
Denis, St-Petersurg, Russia
Ukraine will be in NATO. This is the willing of Ukrainian people. >>>
Not true.
"59 percent of Ukrainians would vote against joining NATO, up from 53 percent last December, while 22 while 22 percent would vote in favor, down from 32 percent" . International Herald Tribune June 16, 2008
Zloy Tugarin, Moscow, Russia
If only the rest of the UK press would carry such sensible and considered articles. The cold war rhetoric we constantly hear from our politicians who are welded to current US policy does not serve either the UK or Europe. Lets hope Milliband has the courage to cut free from the US line.
mike gee, bournemouth, uk
Comments from people who have had to live near or in Russia calling the article 'rubbish'. People who have never even been to Eastern Europe calling it 'balanced'. You in the West have no idea of the criminality or evil that Russia is capable of. I'm not in a hotel 1000 miles away but in Kiev.
Riley, Kiev, Ukraine
Both this and Simon Jenkin's article in the ST clearly show what a world crisis this is. Milliband as the Foreign Secretary needs to have both wisdom and guile, but unfortunately he has neither. They forget how sensitive the US was when Moscow tried to extend its defence system to Cuba.
Dick, Durham, UK
What did we expect from Russia after Mr.Saakashvili start shelling bombs on a sleeping city in the night of August 7th killing innocent Russians ,Georgians and South Ossetians? what would the British Government do if it's 2000 citizens would get hit and killed ?
Thomas, alexandria, USA
This is the time when cool heads and reasoned arguments are most needed. I reckon one should be wary of Russia and Russia's motives, especially with Putin and his devotees being in control, The Pakistanis are right; the West is as dangerous as Russia and calls to 'bring it on' wont make it less so.
Bob Ericson, Tewkesbury, Glos,
Good article!
This is weighed approach to international politic whiout any Anti-Russian hysteria.
Konstantin, Moscow, Russia
Congratulations, Anatol! Mr. Arthur Neville Chamberlain would have approved every singe line of your comment.
Yuri, Kyiv, Ukraine
Excellent piece of informed journalism.
Saakashvili should have read the following quote by Henry Kissinger ("Great powers don’t commit suicide for their allies") before adventuring in this huge gamble.
Alessandro, Milan, Italy
To Greg, Canada. :) 1000 years ago there was Russia formers (Kyivan Rus wasn't so small as you think).
But 1000 years ago there also was no Canada and USA at all! So what is your suggestion? :)
Zhenia, Samara, Russia
What more can one say? I think that Russia's should be given the Nobel price for Peace and an invitation by the Pope in Rome to be blessed and canonised and the name of Vladimir Putin entered as a Saint in the calendar. It is already in the Russian calendar so it should just matter of recognition
Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
.....I can't say "trust me guys, I know the truth”. Nobody can. And that is what makes me regret: no one knows what is really happening in the world except for a group of maybe 100 fellows, who think they’ve got the whole world in their pocket. Let's dee what happens next
Pavel, Moscow,
"Remember the Russian's were Hitler's willing allies."
Miceal Luchenjansky, Brighton Beach,
Make a search about how american businessmen did their business with nazis during II World War. For one country any war is always only a business.
Sofya, Melbourne, Australia
Russians aren't so agressive as most of people think. We are common people like in other countries. But we don't like when other nations says to us "what we can do" and some US politicians express an opinion that Russia have huge reserv of gas & oil, that don't belong her (M.Albright).
Andrey, Saint-Petersburg, Russia
"bbc, cnn propaganda! hahaha"
It's not that funny as it seems. It was very disappointing for me when after 24 hours of georgian artillery at work destroying Tshinvali shown on Russian Vesti channel a have seen the same pictures on cnn but now with comments about "Russians invading little georgia"
kostya, Rubtsovsk, Russia
First:
why is everyone here speaks as if he represents the vast majority of his country's population?
Second:
there are no "right" and "wrong" in this war. It's just rich people who get richer on both sides and common people who suffer.
Last:
we live on ONE planet. we need to manage it somehow.
Nikita, Moscow, Russia
The Russian Federation is not the Warsaw Pact but just a bully nation which needs to be contained before it's too late. Surround the bully and return it in size to 16th century - Czardom of MUSCOVY. There was no Russia 1000 years ago. There was a Kyivan Rus only - not the same thing as Russia.
Greg, Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I can agree with many of these observations. However, it is time now for us Europeans to wean ourselves off dependency on Russia for energy supplies. We cannot trust them. They will use any tool at their disposal to achieve their goals. Let them go their own way, and good luck to them.
Geoff Berry, London, UK
I hope for the ukranians, they realize tha NATO is not good for their interest, they should return to URSS under a new regime and democratic values, their history is united to Russia. They must understand their position and who are their true allies.
Franklin Aranaga, Lima, Perú
The point is that many in the world are thinking a priori that russians are "aggressive" by their nature. If one has such an axiom it is not so difficult to deduce all conclusions that we have seen in the west media. Has anyone tried to assume that russians are not so inadequte as one used to think?
Vlad, Stockholm,
By the way all the people who are discussing the old USSR history there. I offer you to discuss the most recent developments - e.g.1991 when georgians cut and burn ossetians ALIVE. And did it many times.
Irina, Sevastopol,
I do not understand why everyone's attention is on "helping" Ukraine. It is a country that can take care of itself, BUT only with the right President who can think about his own country and not about pleasing WEST all the time. Russia wants peace with its neighbours not a war!
Polina, New York,
Dr Andris Lielmanis, I come from Riga, am fluent in Latvian and know too much about that time. The executions started on July 2, 1941, as you have read in "Teevija". And not of Latvians by the bolsheviks. There were deportations in 1940 and deaths in exile indeed. And Judenfrei Tukums, etc..
Mikhail Drabkin, San Francisco, USA
Mark, Berkhamsted
Mark, who told you Ukraine is a democracy? To speak naturally it's a paradise for ukrainian-speaking people and the hell for all the others. Unfortunately I live in Ukraine and I know what I'm speaking about.
Andrii Balivsky, Kyiv, Ukraine
Andrii, please, don't try to pass the desirable for reality
Irina, Sevastopol,
Mikhael both Poland and Romania quite rightly refused transit rights to Soviet troops as part of the plan that Stalin had floated in early '39, countries that Stalin managed to force his troops into, as into the Baltic states in '40, quickly lost their independence with mass deportations&executions.
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada
Anatol, I have to remind you your words. After Geo. declared indep. and Rus. made almost half million Georgians refugees in their country and cut off gas and el. you witnessed what made us to survive. Your words-Had it happened in Britain half of the nation would have been starved to death in 4 mo.
Una, Tbilisi,
@ Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
I hope you do realise that Russia did exist at the time of the Roman Empire and guess what city was its capital?
Kiev! Ukraine is widely recognised as the birthplace of Russia. The funnier it is when the Polish and Latvian invaded regions distance themselves from it.
Vasily Slesarenko, Moscow, Russia
Russia does have the right and obligation to protect their citizens regardless of their physical location. I only wish that US would do the same. The memory is still fresh from the Katrina disaster ...
Paulina, NYC, USA
It is interesting, whether will recollect the western politics a principle of territorial integrity when China will intrude Taiwan. I think to the West it is necessary to think better of tomorrow's day.
Sergey, Saint-Petersburg, Russia
A nuclear Iran is in Russia's interest? Good foreign policy is what you can get away with?
Russia's current foreign policy is defined by being everything anti-Western for cheap domestic political points.
It's interests are the same as the West - but it's too blinded to see it.
Mick Ross, Sydney, Australia
We shouldn't have to be afraid each time the russian monster open his mouth and make a show with it's army.
We have the capability to do so, it's only a question of willing.
The only difference with a dictatorial regime is that our leaders seem really weak, especially in Europe.
Pierre, Rennes, France
Urging David Miliband to think hard would, ofcourse, require him being both able and willing to do so... Better not hold your breath until THAT happens!
Roel, Leuven, Belgium
Herr Putin has made it clear that he has no plans for territorial expansion beyond South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which he regards as historically Russian. The western alliance should be prepared to sacrifice those countries if in doing so we preserve peace in our time. This is sure to work.
Jacques Francis, Westcott, UK
Based on this Moscowcentric view, NATO should have never existed because building such a military alliance could have provoked a war with the Soviet Union. Now, would Europe have fared better without NATO after WW II?
It's about time Lord Salisbury learned from Neville Chamberlain and Joseph Stalin
Taras, Kyiv, Ukraine
Quite right! , The Russians would have to be daft to think we'd actually go to war over Georgia- unless the oil pipeline was threatened.
The guys who build nuclear power stations must be thanking Putin though - energy security is the watchword now. as Wilson said; every dog is allowed one bite
Mark, London, UK
On the whole a fair piece, but please don't spout Russian scare-tactic propaganda that Ukrainian soldiers could be "dragged" into a conflict in the Muslim world against the will of the Ukrainian nation - NATO members commit to missions in non-member countries on a voluntary and not mandatory basis.
Tim, Richmond, VA, USA
to Mikhail Drabkin: polonaise with Russia usually finishes off in forced unhappy marriage.
In 1939 USSR had a peace treaty with nazis that was also carving Europe in secrect pacts to it. So much for 'vile Poland' that did not allow in USSR or indeed Russian 'peacekeepers' at the time.
Tom, Amsterdam,
From where I sit in Athens Miliband the Mild hasn't done too well to date and should realise that continental Europe - unlike the UK and USA - is moving closer to Russia in spite of the rhetoric. He should remember the Crimean War and keep out of Russia's backyard, ie the Ukraine, completely.
Dr David Green, Athens, Greece
The author very superficially touches themes, he is not right at his conclusions. Ukraine will be in NATO. This is the willing of Ukrainian people.
Andrii Balivsky, Kyiv, Ukraine
The West doesnt understand that Georgia is the one who started this crisis and provoked Russian to enter Georgia. We dont need another War over the country that alot of people here in US didnt even know existed just a month ago.
alex, buffalo, usa
Very good article.
If USA & EU want to protect the territorial integrity of Georgia they have to reverse their own decision about the Kosovo independence.
Simple solution - only problem is it requires politicians with guts to admit their own mistakes.
savo, london, uk
Hardly edifying stuff from Milibrand but apt for the party that mistakes PC for RL.
Take 20 lines "How can the hangovers of Russian imperialism be our issue?"
Gordon must be thinking "I thought I had all the self-destruct buttons"
Terence Park, Burnley,
Has the USA failed to realise that to Russia, the spread and creeping of the NATO alliance to their borders, must be like the Cuban missle crisis for the USA . Then, USA felt threatened by the prospect of missles being so close in Cuba. Surely they should understand Moscow on this.
DAVID BRERETON, Leigh on Sea,
Miliband isn't picking a fight. The fight has started. Just as Hitler's war started in the Rhineland.
Now it's about choice of venue. Georgia? Ukraine? The Fulda Gap? Brighton?
Anatol Lieven overstates Russia's current military/industrial strength, but if they absorb Ukraine...
Stop 'em now.
Bob, Liverpool, England
To peter, miami, usa
Yes, the Brighton Beach "Russians" can show you the dark side of about everything. Just like the Miami Cubans.
Igor, nyc,
Will of Grimsby: it is you not Fiona who doesn't know his history. Whatever the faults of Putin and his regime only a political illiterate would compare present day Russia with Nazi Germany. Apart from anything else Russia has only acted to defend its citizens and has not gone out to attack anybody.
Andy, Preston, England
A very thoughtful article. One could add: ..and only pick a fight when you have a good chance of winning it!
Not only Mr Miliband, no, all western Politicians should take it to heart!
H.A.Stuehrmann, Worpswede, Germany
US lied about the weapons of mass destruction ... And destroyed much of Serbia and Iraq. This is not about the human rights and democracy, it is about control of oil and gas. But of course whatever NATO does it's all for world peace.
Sofya, Melbourne, Australia
Excellent article. I hope the politicians are listening.
bobbyboy, London,
At least our media drops some facts that we shouldn t know while Western news agencies tell total lies! This article makes a brilliant exception.......
Pavel, Moscow,
Alllex, Moscow,
What a lot of Hogwash, perhaps then the Italians should claim back the whole of the Roman Empire as it was. Since at that time Russia did not exist. The Soviet government announced that it was acting to protect the Ukrainians and Belarusians who lived in the eastern part of Poland.
Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
No trap for Georgia? Where the Osetians got their guns? And why they bombed Georgian villages week before August 8? And what was the reason for such a journalist presence in O. right before the conflict? For you this is just the matter of foreign policy, but for Georgians this is a matter of freedom
ivars, Riga, Latvia
History shows that Russia will never be satisfied living in peace with its neighbors. Because of its insecurity It must dominate over them. The sensible thing would be for Moscow to accept the reality that Russia's former colonies want to be independent. Take a lesson from Britain's experience.
Al, Alberta, Canada
Anatol, Kosovo is the root of this fiasco in the first place. Most of the world will never recognize Kosovo, so if we back away, withdraw recognition (it's not a viable state anyway), allow Russians as co-peacekeepers and us in Abkhazia/S. Ossetia, we can step away from this idiotic conflict.
Carruthers, Seattle, USA
quite possibly the worst article i have ever read in the times. the only decent point made is that we need to stop our reliance on russian energy
fiona, seattle. if you cannot see the similarites with russia now and germany in 1936-1939 then its you that dont know your history.
will, grimsby, uk
Eugen Cherevko, Odesa, Ukraine
Yes mate, tell it. Just remember that Russia was there between '80 and '90 and ... what happen then? There is a difference. By the way, thak Nato if today Russia is not Soviet Union anymore.
Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
I agree appeasement does not work. The world needs to stop appeasing America and its fellow bullies. Wake up world!
richard, Cardiff, UK.
Very intelligent. Quite wrong.
Andras, London, UK
nato is not aggressive, it is not expansionist. alot of the members of nato before this russian attack on georgia didnt want it to become a member of the organisation. how can any country thats not paranoid be scared of a defensive promise?
bbc, cnn propaganda! hahaha
will, grimsby, uk
Two thoughts:
No point in NATO or the EU extending 'borders' if there is no intent to back it up with force. And no one in the UK will die for the Ukraine.
BUT this accepts that Russia is entitled to dominate/occupy Eastern Europe destroying the new democracies & destabilising the region.
Mark, Berkhamsted,
To Mrs Bennie from London: Bush lied about Hussein and about ... everything. Now they tell us that Saakashvili is an angel. You are right, it is all about oil. Maybe it is time for the west to admit that we don't have the right to control other countries' resources and play honestly.
sergio, Barcelona, Spain
AT last ,some straight forward COMMON SENSE......pity there's so little of it around !!
Derek H , Chester, England
Putin said that the greatest disaster of the century was the breakup of SSSR. He was right! The west shouldn't have supoorted the breakup not only of Yugoslavia, but also of Checkoslovakia! Breaking up should have been stopped just with the breakup of SSSR! Now its too late.
Dejan, Belgrade, Serbia
Some says: "Russia lied..." I don't think, that we, Russians, are angels now - war is hard and unhuman thing, we know it well since Word War II. But for us destroys in Georgia - the fault of Saakhashvili and his stupid politic, based upon the US military help. Thanks for your article, mr. Lieven!!
Leonid, Vyborg, Russia
Congratulations on the cool intelligence of your article. A welcome contribution amidst the welter of cant.
Joyce Hodgson, Durham, UK.
Joyce Hodgson, Durham,
This is spot on - NATO was credible in the cold war because the lines it set defend, everyone believed it would. The front line in West Germany was defended by troops of the US and Brtiain.
NATO is not a club anyone can join. Only those countries we want to and can defend should be included.
Nick, France,
It's a really interesting comment about five-day war and it's consequences, not another stupid "Russians are coming!". But there one thing, that I can't understand. Why the EU wants to assimilate Ukraine? Doesn't it have problems with totally pro-US Poland & Baltic already?
Arkady Gilev, Ekaterinburg, Russian Federation
Nato is stabilizing the Russian/soviet south frontier. So Nato is doing Russia a favour. Anatole, you seem to be very pro-russian. But, you are right, Ukraine is a cauldron ready to explode.
Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
There are many similarities between the rhetoric and behaviour of Germany in 1938 and Russia in 2008, for example the defending of one’s citizens abroad argument, accusing a smaller country of attacking a larger one, claiming that the world is biased against them, fostering separatism in neighbours.
Sander, New Haven, US
First, a reminder to the distinguished newspaper: it's KYIV, not KIEV - check with your embassy in Ukraine.
Secondly, Mr. Lieven sounds rather like one of those we used to call "Sovietologists". Which means, that he makes no sense in the part about NATO and Ukraine - especially nowadays.
Dmitry Koublitsky, Detroit, USA
If you want to upset your neighbours Put up poles with cameras on top and barbed wire on fences.
Milliband would do well to remember that it is money that wins wars. Russia is getting richer and America and UK are getting
poorer and we have only just finished paying for WW2.
Ronald John Bentham, Nantwich, UK
This Cold War-2 began long before Saakashvilli ordered his US-equipped army to march into South Ossetia.
Who benefits from this new Cold War? Obviously, the military-industrial complexes on both sides. They and politician-patriots wanting to be elected. Now lets go fight and die for them!
Latasha, Jackson, USA
To Peter from Miami. For your information, all such sins in Russian came from Georgian ruler names Stalin. And he forced Abhazia and South Ossetia to be part of Georgia when he came to power, it was a present to his native Georgia. American people, please come to senses re your own government.
Ball, Toronto, Canada
Eugen Cherevko, Odesa, Ukraine
Why Does Russia need NATO near russian borders?
ivan, Moscow,
Russia 1- West 0
I only hope that our leaders become more scheming like Putin than they are now., because we will need this kind of attitude in the future.
Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
The smooth voice of the tyrant. Can't tell the difference between Russia and America? The Poles seem to see a clear difference, as do the Czechs, the Hungarians and the Russian Emigre' population of New York. They know the dark side of the Iron Curtain and the 3am knock on the door.
peter, miami, usa
I would like to thank the author and also the commentators! It is a relief for us in Russia to see that not all people in the world are blind. The amount of propoganda poured onto the Western world recently has been stagerring. Please hold through!
Mike, Moscow, Russia
I would like to thank the author and the commentators! Please hold through the masses of propaganda poured on you!
Mike, Moscow, Russia
Very wise advices will probably be overheard and overlooked. West leaders were behaving all the time from August 8 as if they sincerely wanted to see the independence od Abhazia and South Osetia. They have so far in each and every occasion avoided to act rationally to settle the conflict peacefully.
Vladimir, Novo mesto, Slovenia
As a Chinese I dislike Russia which seized more than 1.6 millions square meters of territory from China during the past two centuries. But I support the author's viewpoint about the Georgia. If the west cannot fully committed to Georgia, don"t give Georgia people empty promises.
Li, Chengdu, China
Of all the available people to choose from we had to choose Milliband as Foreign Secretary, he scares the hell out of me , you just know he will put is foot right in it,
Tom, Notts, uk
Both sides ought to ask the Ukrainians what they think and not impose their own versions of history on others. Russia hardly owns the world's supply of good will.
Mike, Pittsburgh,
Russia was offered a partnership in the missile defence system...but turned it down - Why?
Russia's threats - made by a General (who is actually in charge in Russia?) - wiil be an own goal & just drive these nations West.
Putin knows that the USA does not want to attack Russia.
Phil, Preston,
At last a wise opinion, a decent article not moved by memories of WW2 of fear of the unknown. The west is provoking this crisis, thinking itself omnipotent and the single owner of truth and freedom. I wouldn´t be surprise to find some very familiar faces behind this criminous scheme.
David T Castro, São Paulo, Brazil
Excellent article showing that there are many sides to the diplomatic coin. Miliband would be foolish to think that big talk does not in the end have to be backed up even if to save face.
The debacle that as Vietnam is a prime lesson in what can happen even when appearing to promote democracy.
Mike Mcnamara, Reading, UK
Welldone Mr Lieven,the only thing,when you say the west,I think you mean the british and the americans,thank you
ed, brooklyn, usa
saakashvili trapped NATO and arranged a serious problem for the West. Well done, saakashvili. How many ties you usually need for breakfast? We can mail it for free.
Europeans are like sheeps in the field with the American cowboy at the head.
Victor, Moscow,
Lot's of respect to the author. Honestly, our politics should listen to the people like Lieven, another war in Europe, “hot” or “could” is the last thing that we, common people, need. Had enough in the previous century!
Eduard, Saint Petersburg, RF
Excellent article, well said.
Martin, Prague, Czech Republic
Anatol allow me shake your hand. You are truthful one.
Nikolay, Murmansk, Russia
Article is brilliant! Thank you!
There are no good ones or bad ones; there are only political and economical interests if we’re talking about Russia and US as countries.
I hope that politicians won’t forget (when doing their steps) about normal peaceful people living in every country.
Zhenia, Samara, Russian Federation
@Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK@
On September 17 there was no Polish state. And... Russia took old Russian Empire territory, by the way, which was taken away during civil war in Russia.
Alllex, Moscow,
miliband going to kiev!!!! there is no hope for this planet
whatsoever. and as for camerons utterances, words
fail me.
john w, london, uk
Excellent article. I guess people in the West who have ability to think and analyse should really look hard at U.S. and NATO and try to look through the propaganda of CNN and BBC. If Kosovo, then why not Abhazia and Ossetia?
Tim, Almaty, Kazakhstan
Mr. Medvedev has recognized S.Ossetia and Abkhasia some minutes ago. Nato is the most agressive organization over the globe.
Dmitry, Moscow, Russia
Mikhail Drabkin, San Francisco, USA
What are you doing in the West then?
If I remember correctly it was both Russia and Hitler that attacked Poland. On 17th September was attacked by Russia without a formal war declaration. I belive that it is better for Poland to dance a walz with the west.
Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
Anatole, in some ways you are righti others. You are stating to go begging the russians to take what they want as we are dependent from them. I can see where you are getting the ideas from.
Anthony L, Chelmsford, UK
Excellent analysis-but I fear US/UK 'neo-con' thinking is now so stupid that we are bound to make all the wrong moves and make the situation worse for the West. Bush/Cheney, Blair/Brown, and even David Cameron, cannot see the real picture...
Jon Kent, Hertford, UK
A very good article with the core ideas well expressed however, there is one thing missing:
It is not Russia that is the problem, it is Putin's Russia that is the problem. Miliband should be careful if only because he is not very good but, a new Cold War is inevitable because of Putin.
John Haynes, Burnham on Sea, Somerset, UK
NATO's presence in Afganistan is much more need for Russia than for NATO itself!!!
Eugen Cherevko, Odesa, Ukraine
To sum up then, because Russia is an implacable, self serving bully and will wreak havoc, up to and including war, if the ruling oligarchy doesn't get its way, the West shouldn't do anything that upsets the oligarchs and should abandon aspiring democracies to Russia's tender mercies.
Tam Earl-Aine, Cheltenham,
Good and balanced article. It was a pleasure to read it
Sergey, Moscow,
Article presents a balanced standpoint and gives a good in-depth analysis. It's nice to read this one after a number of provoking "news from the front" often based on doubtful sources.
The author reminds us good old piece of advice - first think then do!
Thank you.
Andy, Moscow, RF
An excellent article.
The only problem is that it is all too complicated for Milliband to take in. As you know Labour doesn't do "history".
In any event he is too busy playing party politics and indulging in internicene warfare to deal with the vital interests of his country .
Stephen Green, Correns, France
Miliband is the second Blair. Disaster for UK foreign and other policies. Look at the way he talks, even the haircut reminds one of Tony's. BE Ware Britain Milliband is not good for you.
Komil, London,
An excellent article. Highly thought provoking.
Andy, London, UK
Exellent article at all points. Thank you.
Fatima Salkazanova
Paris
salkazanova fatima, Paris,
- "Russia will fight if it feels its VITAL INTERESTS under attack in the former Soviet Union"
- Lieven, who is you Führer?
Taras, New York,
After long time i saw a nice article written by evaluating pros and cons of a confrontation with russia & west. As a journalist you have fulfilled the duty of nonpartisan stand.
Keep writing
vijay, bangalore, india
David Milliband needs to know how and when to think.
Best policy is to sit on your hands, keep your mouth shut and listen. Commit to nothing. Observe and scrutinise but keep your flappy mouth shut.
m wilson, bidache, france
As an ex-Soviet citizen I recall that Poland did not allow USSR Army to pass pre-September 1, 1939 in a united front against Nazi Germany. To her own peril -and to her own peril Poland signed the treaty to place US interceptors now.
Dance a polonaise with Russia, not a mazurka with the West
Mikhail Drabkin, San Francisco, USA
There has been no "Eastward drive" by NATO; on the contrary there was a westward drive by the ex captive nations who managed to extricate themselves from the Czarist/Soviet Empire to the perceived safety of the west. Some made it into NATO/EU, some didn't. If not threatened there would be no need.
Dr Andris Lielmanis, Brampton, Canada
I could not agree more. I spent some time in the Ukraine, and appreciate that it is in many ways two countries already. A Russian leaning North, and a 'nationalist' south. Nato's search for a role is a real danger, and one that needs to be reigned in by the politicians. But Miliband is a lightweight
john Dean, London, UK
This article is very well written.Russia will not allow Georgia to become a part of no alliance, except one with Russia.
As for Ukraine, she would do much better to stay neutral,be good to both West and East,and try to improve the living standards of its people, and no t try to play with fire .
L.A. ISUFI, Bergen County.N.J, UNITED STATES
Very good article. A lot of fair points. Nice to know there are clear-thinking people in the UK.
As for those who like to throw around words like "appeasement" and " hitler" talking about today's Russia situation, they should be ashamed of themselves. Maybe they don't know much about Hitler.
Fiona, Seattle, USA
If Russia never set a trap for Georgia, how come Russia has not tried to annex the Baltics, Ukraine, and Central Asian states with very significant ethnic Russian populations?
Dustin, New York, United States
Pragmatism should not be mistaken for appeasement. The Russians are renewing the traditional fist they've held over Eurasia. The West is powerless to stop it unless they are prepared to confront Russia. It's not in the West's interests to do that. The answer; cool heads and reduced energy dependence
Charlie, Sydney, Australia
Russia lied about the civilian casualties, lied about using cluster bombs, lied about withdrawing and is now blockading the port of Poti and the main railway line. And destroying much of Georgia. This is not about the South Ossetians, it is about control of oil and gas to the west.
Mrs Bennie, London, England
Excellent article. I hope you're reading Mr Miliband...
Andy, Atlanta, USA
Excellent!
1) Isreal and Palestine
2) Iraq
3) Afghanistan ... for the oil and gas pipelines been built.
Its all economic interests.
Vishal Patel, London, UK
Really good article! 10/10!
Sergio, Ottawa,
Well said!
William, Hong Kong, China
Appeasement did not work with Hitler it will not work with Putin either. How many democratic countries will be sacrificed before we relearn this lesson?
Dr Ben Matterson, London,
As an eastern European I know all too well about Russian goodwill.
Remember the Russian's were Hitler's willing allies.
Miceal Luchenjansky, Brighton Beach,
well-balanced!
kris, Brighton,